In June I bought 100ml of 100mg nic, then in July I got the salts. I also ended up with a surplus of FB nic that I will not use. Despite my cheap-ass ways, I will not go back to the FB because that harshness is more than an irritation for me. It made my throat hurt and I coughed too. I guess over time I got sensitive to it. It was really making vaping less enjoyable for me, to the point where I stopped making some of my recipes with harsher concentrates because it just made them too hard on me. But that’s all over with now. And with no ill effects felt since July, I feel pretty good that the transition was successful.
I think you two are really going to like the salts.
That’s a very…interesting/unique approach!
One that I don’t think I’ve ever tried, or even thought about trying.
It’s also one that I think I should be trying…
As the closest I’ve come to this previously is with making flavor stones. There are some potentially critical differences there though, because:
A. Those were flavors only (no added PG/VG/nic).
B. There were changes observed with the stones, even without nic (potentially due to C.)
C. The stones were stored in a “typical” 30ml Boston round with dropper (rather than a phenolic cap, so that the alcohol could off gas prior to being mixed, from the standpoint that it would lessen the time to mix in the next step of my process.)
So many approaches. So many variables.
With taking three to five months taking a hardcore (sidetrack) look into the whole “use no heat” thing (and other ideas)…and now this… It’s no wonder I still have so many SFT’s waiting. =P
I used up the last of my FB a long time back - something you guys may want to try with the last of yours.
A 20% solution of benzoic acid (by weight in pg) added to freebase nic at around .375% per mg of nic will smooth it considerably (not quite as smooth as a proper nic salt solution) - if you get sodium benzoate it will have to be converted to benzoic acid first (bit of a mission but it can be done).
This is the method I used but I used citric acid - I will add I didn’t use the resulting benzoic acid it was just a playing with chemistry exercise.
Basically, because of the off-gassing of alcohol in the stone, things were “ready to vape” by just adding PG/VG/nic to the “aged stone”.
That is to say that, it was very similar to a “traditionally mixed” recipe (adding flavors etc individually) and then aging on its own for a month OR taking the same “traditionally mixed” approach, and putting it through “my USC approach” (with Nic, and temp limitations) and giving it three or so days to off-gas.
The biggest difference being is that if I don’t use a stone (pre-off-gassed), nor “my USC approach”, and still use the “traditionally mixed” method… During weeks one and two (on a couple of recipes) I can notice little “flavor bursts” of specific flavors at different temps (in TC mode) which I sometimes enjoy.
So it’s still a varying preference as to which I’m inclined to want at what point (is what I’ve been noticing/realizing). Like there wasn’t enough to be ‘conflicted’ about already. sighs and chuckles
This plays right into a theory I’ve been entertaining. Like a stew. Right out of the pot, i like the separations of flavors. After reheating a few times, I enjoy the blended flavor. Kinda like drilling down another level in assessing a mix.
Thanks. She’s 82, has flu, pneumonia, COPD, heart problems and others. We all go through similar circumstances at some point. Her doctor says she is responding to treatment so that’s good but the outlook is pretty dismal.
There are basically 3 parts of the above sentence that confuse me. One is the alcohol off-gassing, the 2nd is “aged stone” and the 3rd is just adding it to VG/PG makes it vape ready.
I have no experience with stones, sort of, but regard them as no different than an ordinary concentrate. They are all comprised of multiple chemicals. Just using the Flavourart video referenced repeatedly we can use the statements that FA uses over 700 chemicals at their disposal to make concentrates. Each concentrate is different. I personally see no way to determine how miscible this plethora of mixture possibilities are.The final stage is where concentrated flavorings “about” “100 times” stronger are diluted into PG, water, and “other ingredients” are then heated and mixed to produce the final products we use. Clearly, they have to be mixed. Once mixed, I think it very safe to say that the concentrate stays the same unless it is harmed by contamination, evaporation, UV light, or possibly age. I have a few over two year old concentrates that have not deteriorated to any detectable level.
So from your statements am I correct in interpreting
(a) That the “aging” or “steeping” process only involves the flavoring concentrates? i.e. added PG/VG ready to vape
(b) That the stone or concentrated mixture readily penetrates PG and VG?
What is the chemical function of alcohol added to flavoring concentrates? (when it is present)
There are other questions and the sole purpose is for discussion only.
Everything @mrpipes asked in response to your posts yesterday apply to me as well, @Sprkslfly. And since you are one of those ‘intelligent fellows’, I’m definitely interested in hearing your response too. I’m pretty cornfused now.
Understandably. Once again, I wasn’t able to convey things with the clarity I’d hoped (obviously). Sorry for that. I’ll try to refine my thoughts as best I can…
The alcohol off-gassing has always been a consideration in my particular approach, because I’m usually averse to any notable throat-hit. And as a result, is why even after using heat, and the USC, I am typically unable to consider a mix “vape ready” until a couple of days (typically) have passed (though sometimes less, if the overall alcohol content in the flavors used was low to start with).
What I had noticed in the stone I used (that was allowed to sit for a week or more, just by circumstances - not intentional testing) was that A. The flavors appeared to meld/combine with each other faster, since there was no VG involved. B. That once the alcohol was cleared of the 12 flavors in that stone, the whole thing combination had seemingly become its own ‘new flavor’ (in other words the equivalent of an “aged recipe” once mixed. Since there was no longer the distinguishable separation of occasional “flavor bursts” at varying TC points, as referenced above.)
So I equated/translated that (correctly or incorrectly) to the basic equivalent of the same final product as if I’d mixed all 12 flavors individually and let them sit for a month, OR the same as if I’d mixed them all individually, and then ran them through the USC, and let them sit for a week (this one takes a bit longer for me, because of my lower temps, and the fact that there are some creams, etc in the mix).
Nor do I, hence my just sharing my “off the cuff” observations, in hopes of adding to the “experiences/findings/things that might be relevant” along the path of exploration (of the topic) as a whole. Like most, I’m just trying to gain what info I can, to try and help gain a better understanding of what/how this all actually works together! chuckles
And this was kind of what I was trying to say (I think), but from a different perspective. In my waiting for the alcohol to be “removed” as a factor (in the stone), the sum of the i individuals had effectively become a new flavor (since they mixed chemically prior to having to interact with the VG etc).
Let me know if this is clearer, or if I’m way off base. I thought I was on fairly solid footing in my understanding/assessment. But I could be off base or have missed something (of course). If nothing else, I hope this attempted explanation makes more sense.
My (albeit limited) understanding is that it’s simply there as a carrier. I don’t honestly know if there’s a “chemical role” or not. If there was, I would guess that it’s a stabilizer of sorts. Again, just a guess though.
Whatever chemical reaction/interaction there may be, seems to possibly be able to occur faster when just the flavors themselves are mixed together.
This doesn’t negate the need for the infusion into the VG of course. But I currently am thinking of it as being little different from mixing individual molecules together (in a very oversimplified sense, as I’m sure there’s far more going on).
I appreciate your responses. Once again the family stuff has me occupied.One quick point though.
I have no desire, intent, or right to tell anyone they are “off base.” What I try my best to do when I offer up something is to say what I think or do and attempt to state clearly why or how I reached a conclusion. I also provide sources which support it whenever possible or when speculating say so.
Anyway I need to take care of something so I’ll get back to you later.
I do agree with you there, and likely won’t add that time/hassle to my routine. As of now and until I have new gear or compelling evidence to the contrary, I am going to go with what I did the first time, which yielded really good results.
I tried the Creme (with MF Caramel and CAP VC among other things) again today and it is the same… which is very good. All the ones I made (that I have tried) have had the same vibe as their time-aged counterparts. So far so very good.