Only with the salts or with Nic in general?
I was under the impression the Nic would create a faster reaction and change it quicker.
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I am not 100% sure @grubby but I think that freebase nic is in the basic range of ph (i have some test strips and will confirm it as soon as I can find them) while nic salts are a lower ph (more acidic) as a whole I have found that the nic salts change the mix less than freebase nic over time.
I will get back to you on the ph test when I have actually tested it for myself.
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This is an interesting thread. I know that I’ve got some 1 year old 3mg mixes that great pretty damned dark. For everything that I think I’m going to vape in 6 months I steep with the NIC, but when I’m batching 120ml’s for sale, I steep without the NIC and add at the last moment.
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Ok @grubby here is the ph test of salts vs freebase
The top stick is 100mg freebase in vg bottom stick is 100mg nic salts in vg. We are looking at the little test tab at the end of the stick (right of pic)
Now there is a little bit of supposition in this statement based on experience.
Based on the observation that fruit mixes & mixes that have added acids tend to undergo less of a color change and the fact that freebase nic discolours over time while nic salts for the most part stay very clear. My theory is that the more acidic a mix is the less color change (maillard reaction or oxidation don’t know which) there is in the finished juice (entirely not sciency).
Looking at the ph of the salts vs the freebase it is a bit hard to tell the exact ph but it looks to me like the freebase is well into the basic range while the salts are acidic.
Does this mean we can draw a conclusion that juice that is more acidic will have less oxidation (or maillard reaction) and maybe keep longer? All i will say is maybe.
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I’m always out battling pH in my pool, so I know it well. It would appear acidic is less conducive to oxidation. What’s interesting (as I’m shopping for NIC again) is that Nude NIC puts ascorbic acid in their Armor v.3. Related ??
ARMOR v3 incorporates one of our newest additives, ascorbic acid, whose anti-oxidative properties allow for the reduction of free radicals in solution. Thus, slowing the oxidation of your active ingredient – nicotine – without affecting the taste of your finished product!
The ascorbic acid is working to concentrate oxidative energy away from nicotine molecules, and is very evident that in the standard 100mg/mL solution, radical oxidation ahs set in without the help of ascorbic acid in solution.
A 0.01w/v% of ascorbic acid in solution is not new to the world of chemistry. This natural antioxidant and preservative is utilized in a great many holistic, pharmaceutical, beverage, and culinary applications in this low weight percent in exactly in the manner utilized for ARMOR v3 protective oxidation.
Vitamin C is also known as ascorbic acid and is considered a weak acid. This doesn’t mean it makes your body more acidic. In fact, vitamin C-rich foods, such as citrus fruits, are considered alkaline-forming foods, as the body burns the acids, leaving an alkaline end product.
What is the acidity of ascorbic acid?
Ascorbic acid is a weak acid (pKa= 4.2) [3], only slightly stronger than vinegar. When dissolved in water, vitamin C is sour but less so than citric acid found in lemons and limes.
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I used to use nude now I use https://liquidnicotinewholesalers.com while it is really not that different than nude the reliability is a lot better.
Obviously the tests I did was without flavour but I think we could assume that fruit is more acidic than say a custard (i will check later)
I have added benzoic acid to mixes 20% solution of benzoic acid (by weight in pg) added to freebase nic at around .375% per mg of nic will create a similar environment to salts (pretty much what nn is doing but different acid).
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If I mix a large batch that needs to sit I will usually do it without nic, don’t know if it really matters though. I do only buy 0mg store bought though and add nic when I get around to vaping it. I have bottles of store bought with only 3mg that went black, The O.B. by suicide bunny is one, no way I am vaping that tar. All the other store bought with 0 nic are still the same color as when I bought them and taste fresh even after a few years.
A friend of mine who just moved found a bottle I mixed for him, 120ml with 3mg and after 2 years it still tasted great. It was in a amber glass bottle and shielded from light and in a cool place, probably what helped it stay so fresh.
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I got that one too mate but it is so early in the month what if someone better than us comes along - na not possible 
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So based off of your experiences and research the more acidic the longer lasting, there I was thinking it would do the opposite, thanks for clearing that up.
Can we assume some company’s are using an additive to increase its acidity to increase shelf life?
@Mjag every bottle of MM I ever had went black after some time, 3mg too, so as soon as you open those they begin to degrade but can sit unopened on shelves / in boxes for ages, wonder if they use the argon that @woftam spoke about.
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The amber bottles may be key to this also. I have a guilty pleasure, a 14 month old bottle of Rhodonite that is still awesome today. But it was always stored in an amber bottle.
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I left a small amount of 100mg nic salts in a bottle on the window sill after 4 months it was still crystal clear
That said I also have noticed that nic in pg appears to oxidize faster.
It is quite possible that argon or another inert gas is used - some of them may also pack in a vacuum (bit harder to achieve I imagine.
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I thought that was me?
Ooops…derailing…carry on as you were!
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You are my most mostest guilty pleasure.
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I suspect you missed an i 
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I have half a bottle of 72mg/ml PG based nicotine in the cupboard still from Darkstar, it’s been kept in a thick sealable plastic bag, the smell I would say is a slight cigarette butt smell but the color is only slightly off, I will probably try some in a mix and see how that goes. What do you think?
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Test will be in the tasting if it is only a little off in color it should be fine but if it is a pepper assault you will soon know about it.
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Could be possible with the argon gas but every eliquid mfg vid I have seen they just pop the top on after it is filled. They maybe use cheap nic? None of my DIY goes as black as SB juices do even after years, I will try and get a pic of that OB later tonight, it is disgusting.
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I’ve noticed that too. I always leave a mixing bottle of nicotine at room temp with enough for a few weeks worth of mixing, but sometimes it ends up sitting out longer than that if I’m not mixing often. I noticed that since I switched from pg nic to 50/50 pg/vg it doesn’t change colors like the pg nic sometimes would if it was left out longer.
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Very interesting.
I recently dropped from 3mg/ml Nic to 1mg/ml Nic and noticed that one of my recipes has stayed a very light color almost identical to when it was first mixed whereas the 3mg/ml version would go a very dark golden colour.
The more nicotine the quicker the oxidization of the mix as a whole?
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When I shake up my mix I shake it like a lunatic until it is just bubbles, then slowly over time those bubbles disappear and I get the liquid, the same way bubbles in coke slowly go.
Should I be giving it a gentle shake or even just roll the bottle a bit or don’t even shake it all maybe… 
PG / VG / Nic are all Hygroscopic so your right “breathing” really doesn’t make sense at all unless like you say, people are enjoying the taste of oxidized nic instead of the flavours, which brings me to another experience.
I mixed up quite a few of my recipes without Nic and I didn’t enjoy them as much, they lacked something, now we know what it was, oxidized nicotine, it does add a detectable taste to to a mix, for me at least.
Maybe for 0nic an additive with similar properties should be used.
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