Nic Salts - More addictive than freebase?


#41

If you can get by at that then of course there is no point. I’m planning to go down to 1.5 or 2% freebase. I don’t know exactly what happened but I’ve vaped 0% all day then hit some with salts in one of my wife’s tanks…nic sick again. May as well eat a cigar. Fuck it. Whatever the reason no more salts for me.


#42

After 3 years (almost) of 3mg… I’ve been using 2mg the last 45-60 days without issue! :yay & happy dance:

You can do it!!


#43

Here is my take on nicotine and addiction. I don’t think nic is that addictive at all. At least not for me. I think the combination of the hundreds of chemicals and substances allowed in cigarettes are what create the craving while smoking. I would really like to see a non biased comprehensive study of what happens when all those substances are burned together, with and without tobacco. It wouldn’t surprise me if they create some highly addictive drug when combined.

I can go a whole day without vaping and not be all shaky and jittery or irritable like I would get while smoking. What I crave is the experience and feeling of something entering my lungs, the taste and sensation. I would expect to a small degree the nicotine high. I jones for my morning coffee caffeine buzz more than for nicotine, but I do crave the vaping experience.

I dropped down to 1mg almost 3 years ago, so I have little need to try salts and I get VG base so I don’t worry about throat hit or lack thereof. I would really like to get your opinion on the Carolina Extracts @mrpipes. I keep putting it off, but I use so little nic that the price doesn’t bother me any more.


#44

No doubt! I totally agree with this!

BTW, Happy Cake day Jim!! :partying_face:


#45

I’ll definitely let you know. I don’t like freebase harshness/throat hit so I tried the salts. I don’t recall reading anything but high praise for Carolina nic so that’s the plan. I think Its past time to reduce my levels and I agree with your assessment of nic addiction. Things I’ve said before were based on the facts that I like the effects and don’t consider it harmful. I never expected to OD on it either but I was one sick man yesterday.

I felt a little edgy today with no nic but it was more like a hangover than craving. I’ve been physically inactive for awhile mostly because I just couldn’t stand anymore of the cold weather. My hips are shot with arthritis and I have a knee replacement and plates and pins and screws in my lower legs. When all that get’s inflamed its best to ride it out. I don’t take any drugs because IMO the side effects are worse than the pain. Normally I’m pretty active for an ol fart. :sweat_smile: I suspect this inactivity may have something to do with what went on and like sparky suggested may have been a combination of things .


#46

Can’t believe I missed it. Ditto from me @Jim22


#47

Well I hope the warm weather is coming for you soon. Even where I am in Southern California, I can get increased joint pain with colder weather.

Years ago before I discovered vaping, I tried all the usual things to quit smoking. The gum and lozenges made my throat feel like sandpaper. When patches became over the counter I tried the lowest dosage. About an hour after putting it on, my heart went nuts and I thought it would explode. Luckily I had the presence of mind to rip the patch off and I washed my arm thoroughly. Besides the elevated heartbeat, I was really dizzy, head spins and blurred vision. I was really close to calling an ambulance when it started to subside. I felt like I got hit by a truck afterwards just from the extreme stress it put me through. So I know what its like to get too much. It really sucks.

Thanks for the cake day wishes from you and @Sprkslfly, I didn’t even realize it til he mentioned it lol.


#48

Happy Cake Day @Jim22


#49

Thanks! Can’t believe its been a whole year since I discovered this place.


#50

Happy Cake Day Jim, and I also have no ‘classic’ addiction the nic the way I did with analogs. I get a desire to vape when I am unable to, but it is not an anxiety and I don’t get physically affected from long spells away from it. For instance, I do not take it with me on business travel.


#51

Thanks Phil!

Very well said.


#52

I want to update on my experiences with salts. Far too many people are using them for there to be a problem with them as a whole. Nevertheless I believe I have the causes of my nightmare narrowed down as far as can be done without very expensive lab testing. This in itself is IMO a cause for grave concern. Just because a label says something that does not mean that is what is in the container. I recall reading many bad experiences people had with freebase that was verified by titration.

When I mix with 100 mg nic I use a syringe to draw the liquid from my container and then use my scale to weigh drops. In this case I had not transferred to glass and had poked a small hole in the foil seal to draw from. The bottle claims it is 100 mg in PG. NO IT IS NOT. This stuff was as thick as pancake syrup. This morning I dumped it into a 250 mg glass beaker. While I tried to take a pic of what appears to be crystalline substances suspended in it, I am not able to. They look like tiny air bubbles on camera but I know they are not. It is a grit.

The probability that I wound up with a “hot” mix seems very high to me. Whether this was a “hot spot” or a concentration higher than 100mg…or both… is impossible for me to to determine. The fact that I had vaped this in some mixes without problems lends itself to “hot spot” concentration though I will say that the mixes seemed very strong and I had experienced an unidentifiable bad taste occasionally before I experienced what was clearly a nicotine OD.

I can only recommend that you make certain that you agitate salts very well and visually inspect them even when a container claims nic suspended in PG. When I poured these out this morning I was stunned. You all know that I have some very expensive mixing and lab equipment.

Did I mention how fucking sick this shit made me ??? :rage::rage::rage:


#53

This applies to salts only?

That, combined with your terrible experience, seems to suggest to me that it isn’t the salts that’s the issue, but rather a catastrophic error in improper packaging and labeling of the product. What should be 100mg PG salt seems to sound a lot more like 240mg VG salt. I wonder… can you try the titration test anyway, to see if it is even salt? Who knows, if the packaging is wrong, it may even be FB??

**Oh, and don’t think I’m blindly ‘defending’ salts. Totally not the case. I’m as curious about this as you are (albeit not nearly as sick).


#54

1st sentence above: Its not the salts - far too many people are using them without problems.

Of course everything mixed with nicotine needs to be agitated or more correctly- everything needs to be evenly dispersed throughout a mix. I considered posting the other day about stratification when using conventional agitators/mixers which can occur with globules and agglomerates forming instead of evenly dispersing. See http://www.silverson.com/us/resource-library/videos/ How to Blend Liquids of Varying Viscosities- Deagglomeration- Disolving etc.

This is why I said that having a 250 mg strength available to the public is plain dumb. People do not have the means to evenly disperse such a small quantity throughout a mix. Watching these process video’s shows why.

On that subject I am finally back in my workshop. The swelling and inflammation has subsided and I can keep it warm enough to work in short sleeves. Running a lathe or milling machine in long sleeves is very very dumb.

I am simply attempting to provide information. When a supplier pisses me off and I have concrete evidence to show, then I don’t hesitate to broadcast it. With NR I have criticized them repeatedly but could show tracking and communication details. I tried to photograph this stuff and as stated, would incur heavy expenses for lab testing. I have disposed of it. I have had enough bad experiences with them otherwise to the point that I’m not going to buy anything from them. Ymmv.

And yes, I firmly believe that what they sent me is not PG based and likely not 100 mg either. But I am not attempting to tell anyone not to use salts.


#55

And nor am I trying to convince you to give them another chance. Safety First is my mantra and I fully live it. No way would I want to know that you tried the salts again at my urging, only to find that something really bad happened. That would weigh quite heavily on my conscious; leading a brother to a calamity. I don’t blame you at all and would likely do exactly the same thing you did. (Except I can’t abide the hit if FB anymore).


#56

One possibility comes to mind. This stuff took a long time to get here and it lay in a fedex truck in sub zero temps for at least a week. The crystalline nature may be from freezing. I don’t know. But I have had ordinary flavoring go bad from freezing. So I’m just moving on. I’ve dumped a lot of mixes and am replacing them with 1.5% FB which seems to be working for me just fine without any harshness problems or cravings. I also haven’t drove my tractor to the local courthouse to dump a load of horseshit in a blind rage from lack of nicotine, but I confess the urge is pretty compelling. :grin:


#57

That would not be a sign of withdrawal; actually that is a pretty normal urge in my opinion.


#58

I am curious about the viscosity of the salts being used by those here. @Phil_Fish and @woftam and ?Anyone else. All I had done was shake the plastic bottle and had not visually inspected mine which was syrupy thick while supposedly PG.


#59

I use PG based salts (100mg). It’s a very clear liquid with viscosity slightly higher than water. When i pull it out of the freezer it’s as viscous as VG, but half an hour later it’s just like any other PG.


#60

I have always used VG nic salts so I can’t really comment on the PG version but the consistency should be exactly the same as FB