I did a little shopping today. Got some beakers coming that are 250ml instead of the 500ml I have and have a much smaller diameter. Theory is that the immersion blender will fit tighter with a greater volume of “liquid” above the propeller dome. This will hopefully diminish the vertical displacement of liquid while mixing. I’ll see obviously when they get here. If nothing else they will make great conversation pieces when I serve pop in them, lol.
2 Likes
I think it would go great with the mad scientist theme I’ve got going in the dog house.
2 Likes
Correct me if I’ve interpreted your intent incorrectly but, the way I read it (as ‘chopped together’ in the following quote; since it was originally two paragraphs) and am replying to, is as follows:
You are very correct in your assumption, in that the amount of air available in my Boston rounds is extremely limited. Before, during, and after the USC process is completed. And IMO it would be a significant enough difference between the two methods (in this case, also assuming, where a stirrer was used in a container with a much larger volume of air was present and could negatively affect the nicotine during the process). Then, additionally, the other point of interest with regard to heat and air, as you go on to mention (rightly so IMO):
Whereas I use a typical minimum of 80vg (and frequently, somewhat higher…guesstimated to be 85-88??*). I can’t help but wonder to what degree does the change in VG require (tolerate, or offset) a change in heat? Is it a linear change or logarithmic? If log, at what point does it really become noteworthy (because we’ve almost got to be within the bell end where the shift occurs, given that we’re playing in the 70%, 80%, and 90% zone)?
.
.
“guesstimated to be 85-88??*”
I pull this note aside, only as a reminder that I’ve mentioned previously that I add PG last, specifically because "not all bottles contain 30ml like they say they do. And even though the rest of the mix is based on an 80vg target, if a recipe calls for say 1.8ml PG, and I can only fit 0.3ml in to my usual neckline marker, then that’s a potentially notable shift in the target vs actual VG percentage. (The numbers I use here are a rarer extreme, but are actual numbers that I’ve encountered, on several occasions)
To my line of thinking, it’s far more important to maintain the area reserved for off-gassing, than it is to have raised the VG level by the omission noted above.
1 Like
Just want to throw another spanner in the mix. A lot of what is said in this thread is far far beyond any methods I have used and I find it all very interesting reading.
While a little off topic from the conversation I think you are going to have to test ph of the liquid as I firmly believe (possibly erroneously) that the ph will have a massive effect on the level of oxidation.
I would love to test but I don’t have any freebase nic here to do it. I did a fair bit of searching around after reading a post on elr
I sourced some benzoic acid and made up a 20% solution and followed the ratio mentioned in that post. I am also aware that benzoic acid is what juul use in their pods.
Observations from that were - little to no throat hit and little to no discolouration (oxidation) in a mix.
As i said a little off topic but something else you may want to consider.
3 Likes
Yes the high nic will have more potential for oxidation but i would also say that the acid will retard that process.
2 Likes
Ok, wanted to play a little.
Add VG/PG (85% of final volume)
Use immersion blender. Ended up with a major froth. (it’s flavorless base right?)
USC @ 40°C for 1/2 hour. (took the full half hour to de-froth… Yikes!)
Added flavors and nic (Blue/Raspberry majority. Very minor amount of whipped cream and sweet cream)
Stir via magnet for 1/2 hour with no vortex (no noticeable gassing introduced)
Final temperature ~ 75°F (room temp 65)
Not a bad vape. I’ll look for changes as time goes by. I mixed 120ml so it will take awhile to vape it up.
5 Likes
I wanted to thank all of you for this topic. I will probably never own some of the equipment, but I find it all quite fascinating and like learning about it. I have always found a bit of heat helpful in the effort to get some candies and fruits to better meld together. Its nice to know that you won’t be criticized or ostracized here for having different methods and techniques.
5 Likes
Can’t sleep. Hate time changes. Glad you are enjoying the thread. You won’t be criticized by me regardless of how you mix. Degradation of flavor for one person may be mellowing to another. Seeing the results of different methods can be nothing but helpful.
5 Likes
Agree on the time change. I can’t operate on a 24 hour clock as it is. The next time I run into my acquaintance that runs a commercial juice company, I’ll have to ask what type of equipment they use and heat, steeping, etc
4 Likes
Absolutely!!! I’ve come across a couple of companies who claim to age their products and each one is different in time. Haven’t found any that are talking about breathing as of yet.
3 Likes
Ok, Three days after mixing and already the flavor intensity is increasing. At this point I am attributing this to further diffusion of the flavors in the mix. No significant aeration was allowed. I am noticing no loss of “sharp” flavor content or any discoloration of the liquid.
4 Likes
Ok I’'ve been vaping on two batches of different mixes now for four or five days and I am amazed at the flavor production. I am ready to claim “best yet” of any methodology I have used to date. To help qualify what that means here’s a brief history:
Started mixing by volume and shaking the juice. Followed by a couple of days rest. Next step was to measure by weight and froth with a hand blender. Again let set for a couple of days. All of this done in wide mouth containers. Third major change was to use a magnet stirrer for 1/2 hour with no heat applied with and without vortex. This was followed by 1/2 hour in a USC with and without heat. Again all done with wide mouth containers. Closed storage time ranged up to a couple of months prior to using up the liquid.
The latest and hands down best:
Mix all ingredients in 120ml Boston Round. Batch size 110ml. Close bottle and heat in Souse Vide to 40°C. Homogenize for two minutes in Boston Round bottle. Close bottle and process in USC for 30 minutes at 40°C. Allow mix to cool to room temp. Flavor is strong. I may lower percentages. Not sure. The new stronger flavor is pretty nice too. One last change that I can not justify attributing to the method. I also lowered my nic level from 3mg/ml to 2mg/ml. This was per throat irritation at 3mg/ml, but, I am not experiencing any nicotine craving so I can’t believe any significant loss in nicotine strength occurred. Unfortunately, no controls or measurements to qualify that part.
6 Likes
Interesting, I have been thinking about getting an USC. A lot to think about. Thanks for sharing your results.
3 Likes
Well that was a long, though incredibly interesting, and thought provoking read.
Again I will need some time to adequately absorb/homogenize all this information:grin:
5 Likes
Mrpipes, what a fantastic write up. I really enjoyed reading it and learned. So crazy how good information turns controversial for no reason other than lack of knowledge at best. Thank you for enlightening me and taking the time to post this
Awesome discussions in the responses too!
I have never used heat and purchased a stirred without this… off to amazon I go. no silly not for a homogenizer lol. But what awesome buys you did get!
6 Likes
This has been an amazing read, so much so that I feel that I need to venture (for me that is) into unexplored territory. It makes so much sense that it would be amiss of me not to try it.
Unfortunately I can’t justify the high cost of a decent homogenizer ATM, so I have had to buy the cheap Chinese version.
@anon96069639 I know you said the elcheapo packed up very quickly, but once I’ve dipped my toe in the water, I’ll be able to consider an expensive one.
Thanks to all the folk who have added to this post. 
Edit: I had the Chinese supplier come back to me saying they are out of stock, and refunded my money.
Maybe this is telling me something? 
6 Likes
Thanks for all that very useful information Mr Pipes
No, unfortunately I live on the other side of the world in New Zealand, which is even worse 
As I understand it then, the generator is not able to connect to a standard Dremel type tool? and requires a proprietary connection, which is specific to each manufacturer.
You mentioned that you are using a re-purposed router motor, may I ask how you connect the generator? or have you custom-made a fitting?
I do look forward to seeing your DIY homogenizer generator, when you get around to it.
This is a whole new rabbit hole isn’t it 
4 Likes
Thanks Mr Pipes for going to so much trouble to explain the workings of the unit.
Unfortunately I don’t have access to the machinery, or the skills for that matter, to manufacture this type of stuff.
However in the interim, I will try the dome blender that @SmilingOgre has described, along with warming the VG, and see how that goes.
I know what you’re saying, about being older and slower 
3 Likes
The hand blender with the dome doesn’t do quite as good a job of mixing but it does pretty good. The trick is to keep the dome under the surface and not allow it to froth the liquid by introducing a ton of air. Good luck and keep watching the web for sales. I got my generator motor used on ebay and got lucky. It has a few blemishes but runs great. It was obviously out of a clinic as it was hard wired and had no plug. No problem attaching a plug obviously.
4 Likes
Thanks @SmilingOgre I will try it as a first measure, and keep my eyes open for the sales.
Unfortunately being in NZ the options are limited, and ebay is virtually nonexistent, and the shipping from the US is laughable.
As an example I ordered stock from TFA and the cost of the concentrates was US$340 and the shipping US$164, more than half, which to me is ridiculous.
I have asked one of the lab suppliers here for a price for their homogenizer, which will probably be good for a laugh at least
2 Likes