Just as the topic title, does the degradation of nicotine in a mix aid the homogenisation of the liquid by breaking down all the components, your thoughts please.
Good Question, Grubby! I can’t recall hearing of anyone ever testing the theory. This would require mixing two identical bottles of liquid, one with, and the other without nic, right? Mix a recipe that you’re very familiar with, in terms of knowing it’s steep time, but the ‘level’ of nicotine could play a role, as well. So, 6mg/ml of nic might help speed things along, whereas 1-2mg/ml may have a negligible effect. I’m just spitballing here, Grubby! Perhaps a third bottle of said recipe mixed with 24mg/ml, as a type of control for the test.
I’ve only heard anecdotal evidence where people have said the user experience is better with some margin of nic (eg 1.0 mg nic) compared to zero nic.
But I haven’t seen a mass amount of people testing this.
Awesome! Thanks for replying.
The reason I bring this up is that I’ve been vaping 0 nic eliquid and found it to be very raw / harsh, the flavour is there but it’s not how it is with nic at all.
I’ve recently vaped eliquid that is old and had 3mg / 6mg nic in and it is very smooth and flavourful.
I’m wondering if the nic breaks down and helps the homogenisation period somewhat, maybe someone else has experienced this
Sounds like something else has changed, to me! Did you increase the amount of PG you’re using?
Or, how long have you had it?
Propylene Glycol USP/EP is stable for at least two years when stored at ambient temperatures in closed containers and away from sunlight and other sources of UV light.
PG USP/EP is hygroscopic and may be subject to partial oxidation in the presence of oxygen. With increasing storage time, dependent on the storage conditions, the water content, color, odor and acidity can increase.
That’s very interesting. I’ve always lowered nic to decrease irritation. Years ago I tried some zero nic and don’t remember it being harsh but then I may not have been paying attention. The biggest thing was that I was not ready and still needed nic for satisfaction. I’ve been stable with 2mg/ml salt for some time now. In terms of chemistry, I have no idea.
I’m fairly sure it does @grubby, but I can’t back it up with science. I literally JUST had a client call me, and ask for a change in his bottles. I had been shipping him 120ml’s of fresh mixed juice, and started shipping in black bottles (to minimize oxidation, at least via UV). He was a long time customer, and I printed made on, and best by dates on every bottle, and he knew the drill, and has had no issues. He asked for me to switch back to clear bottles, as he felt the juice tasted better in them, than in the black bottles I had recently switched to. He said the juice in the black bottles was almost clear, and the juice in the clear bottles was more amber. His words, not mine.
This seems to directly relate to UV rays and the oxidation, I assume, as the heat/cool was the same, only difference was the clear or dark bottles.
I’m convinced that oxidizing NIC does something to enhance the breakdown, and blending of the juice.
I’m not sure @whthek, as that would remove the “effect” and “taste” of the NIC at the same time.
Tell me what you think about this. You could mix two identical bottles, and leave one at room temp, and the other chilled, assuming a fridge, not a freezer, and compare for blending after a few weeks.
I’m just going to make a couple of 60ml batches, one with and one without and see if I can tell a difference. Not today, but soon. I’ve been wanting to take another shot at zero nic anyway.
I’ve done a LOT of testing, and have mixed up countless 10ml sample bottles. I teetered back and forth on using NIC, no NIC, and it was interesting, as I found the NIC did “something” to the mix. Made it more substantial, full, something that I couldn’t put my finger on, and I could clearly taste/feel it when going back and forth from NIC mixes, to non NIC mixes. I finally decided to NIC up EVERY tester I did since then. I also wanted to make sure I was testing, in as close to what your average user would taste, i.e. a finished, NIC juice.
I’d be very curious to hear what you think Walt. I literally did tons of A/B same juice comparisons, and had my ADV sitting right beside me, so it wasn’t NIC cravings causing anything. It just felt like the non NIC had lost some “weight”, “presence”, or “something”.
It’s hard for me to get too excited about going from 2ml to zero. We know how little effect nic has on us. I’m not planning to stop drinking coffee either, lol. Some things just aren’t that important to me.
I’ll share the results for sure. Obviously you know I do homogenize so there may be another wrinkle in the non scientific test, lol. I’ll be “looking” for any differences I can perceive.
I’ve switched back to NIC up every tester myself, thought I would save $$ by not Nic’ing testers, but realized it wasn’t the same. Could be a Nic dependence, IDK.
For mixes, even long term steeper’s, I always add nic up front although I know some ppl add nic after steep in fears of oxidized nicotine I guess.
I know I’ve read somewhere that flavor concentrates actually degrade faster than nicotine……
I process every batch with nic in from the beginning. 120ml only lasts me a week so I just can’t get too excited about oxidation.
Hehe, roger that @SmilingOgre. I’ve always used clear bottles, and when people started buying more 120’s, it seemed prudent to get a few cases of the black cosmo 120’s I like, as a favor to my customers, to help stave of at least UV oxidation, as I can’t dictate anyone chill their juices hehe.
I was surprised when he reached out to me, and asked to specifically switch BACK to the clear bottles, and did specifically cite, the black bottles had clear juice, and the clear bottles had “amber” juice.
Wow, thanks so much for your reply’s, I’m going back to nic on my latest mixes, without nic the flavour seems really harsh, the liquid is clear as it should be but it doesn’t taste the same it just tastes off, it tastes raw, too much for me IMO
@Rocky02852 that’s what I surmised early on. I just kept my ADV (3mg subohm) right next to me, so if there were any shinanigans I could squelch them as needed. Continued testing (at least for me), DID prove, something was just “different” with the no NIC, than NIC’d.
@Grubby well THAT ^^^^^ is curious. These are steeped mixes right, not fresh mixed ?
Exactly. If I was a scientist, maybe I could shoot it into an electron microscope and explain it, but I am not.
Fresh mixes, I have mixes from a year ago that taste great, the new mixes, 3 days old just taste too raw and are nothing compared to nic mixes