Good Morning All,
I recently found a recipe profile that I wanted to try and replicate that referenced a back note of vanilla cognac. I have some Hennessey cognac in the house and thought I might try to include that but I’m concerned about including alcohol. I have a heated ultrasonic so I thought of two options:
I could vibe and heat the final eliquid for a time to evaporate the alcohol. Not my first choice.
I could pre-treat some Hennessey by putting some in the ultrasonic until the alcohol is evaporated, and use the remaining “essence” as a flavor.
I’m leaning towards Option 2 above. I’ve been trying to research this in the forums but I’ve not found a direct discussion. Please - your thoughts?
I like the idea I had the same thought using Jameson Irish Whiskey here’s what I found about it.
You cannot completely cook all the alcohol out, but you can reduce it to a negligible amount. According to the data, 15 minutes of simmering whiskey in a pot leaves roughly 40% alcohol, while 2.5 hours leaves about 5%. Longer cooking times and wider pans increase evaporation, though traces of alcohol may remain.
Basically it cooks down to a thick syrup which could then be blended with a small amount of PG to thin it out for mixing.
Hi again @McDuckie - it’s been a minute. So I took a flyer and evaporated 12 mls of Hennessey down to about 2 mls remaining. I found that odd because Hennessey is only 40% alcohol by volume. I gave it about 2 hours in the ultrasonic at about 135 F and then left the beaker out overnight. After that I couldn’t really smell alcohol anymore. I then took that remaining 2 mls and mixed it with about 8 mls of PG which actually yielded a 20% mixture.
I made an attempt at a Five Pawns Grandmaster Limited clone that included 1% of the Cognac flavor. I’m currently awaiting a two week steep and I have high hopes. I’ll report back later and if the recipe turns out well and I suffer no ill effects, I’ll post it. Thanks for the input.
That’s interesting a peanut butter/banana with a hint of cognac. I have tried the Five Pawns Grandmaster (it was one of their better offerings) and I know the original recipe, but never tried the Limited version. Makes me wonder if they simply used TPA or FA Brandy since cognac is essentially an aged brandy. A local shop near my house carries Five Pawns, I wonder if they have the Grandmaster Limited.
@McDuckie , you’re probably aware that Five Pawns is famous for steeping some of their eliquids, such as Castle Long, in barrels that were used for aging alcohols. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they created Grandmaster Limited by steeping in used cognac barrels. That said, if the Hennessey dilution doesn’t work out, I have TPA Bourbon and WF Aged Bourbon Cream, and I have a feeling those might not be an exact match, but might work well also. I couldn’t really smell the Hennessey in the Grandmaster mix yet, so I added another drop for a total of 1.5% in a 5 ml tester. I can’t wait.
I’d probably avoid using actual Hennessey altogether to be honest. Even if you evaporate the alcohol off, there’s still a lot of unknowns with sugars, oils and other compounds that weren’t intended for vaping.
If you’re chasing that warm cognac back note, a proper flavour concentrate will usually give a cleaner and far more repeatable result. Much less hassle as well.
I’m normally very careful with my vaping and mixing. I try to keep my mixing environment and atomizers very clean, and I agree with you. I can’t seem to locate a “cognac” flavor, but the highest rated brandy flavor on ELR is VSO Brandy, and I’m going to order some. I’ll probably try the Grandmaster test mix I made, but I’ll probably just test the mix and not use the Hennessey dilution again because I found a proper flavor alternative. I appreciate your and @McDuckie 's responses - Thanks for getting back to me.
VSO Brandy is the highest rated? I personally didn’t get Brandy from VSO at all. For my top 3 Brandys would have to be VTA (available @Kings Flavours Uk), TPA and FA Brandy.
Now I know for a fact that in one of their retired recipes (my favorite by them) called Lucena (which is a brandied peach cobbler mix topped with candied hazelnuts) that 5 pawns used TPA Jamaican Rum at 5% with TPA Juicy Peach to create the brandied peach flavor. As most available Brandy flavors can be slightly woody.
I’m going to try the recipe I have for Grandmaster with some TPA Jamaican Rum because I want to see how it blends with the Banana. Could be really interesting.
I may actually reconsider my search for a good brandy flavor. I’ve been looking for an excuse to pick up a jamaican rum and this might be it. I have to admit that both TPA and FA are really close in the ratings on ELR, and I’m leaning towards FA. The actual highest rated is TPA (DX) but there are over 14000 recipes that use FA.
I have four Lucena recipes copied into my personal database, including two of yours! All have been since removed from ELR and ATF - a dang shame. (Makes me glad I keep a personal database - @SessionDrummer I hope you’re listening!) Definitely a profile I’ve wanted to try.
This is the recipe I started with but had to make changes based on what I have available: https://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/2277836/Grandmaster%20clone%20v1
My version needs four more days of a two week steep, but off the smell, the banana has mellowed and I think the cognac is coming forward a bit. Again, I can’t wait.
I’ll repost my Lucena recipe and I’ll post the recipe for Grandmaster Reserve that I am going to mix up. The original Grandmaster is a flavor bending work of art. The main issue is that using a regular peanut butter and something like Banana Cream is that they steep out too much. The original actually steeps into a creamy peanut butter and banana mix.
McD, Thanks a lot for posting those. I noticed you made some adjustments from the previous Lucena version you had on ATF, so I assume you refined it a bit. You went from TPA Brandy to TPA Kentucky Bourbon and I thought that was interesting. For your Grandmaster recipe, I might try and sub WF Banana Puree and Nomz Banana, split down the middle for the TPA Ripe Banana - waddayathink? Looks like I’ll be placing an order at TPA again…dang it. Again - Thanks for sharing these recipes.
I believe that at that time I had run out of TPA Brandy and subbed it for Kentucky Bourbon. Yes I indeed was playing with the OG recipe as experimentation is at the heart of DIY. The actual OG recipe only calls for Jamaican Rum, Peach juicy, Apple Pie, Maple Syrup and Hazelnut Praline. I have around 15ml left of the OG as a one shot as I am out of the individual flavors.
As for the grandmaster I’ve tried it using TPA Banana Cream in place of the Ripe Banana and it faded to nothing after steeping. I can’t remember how WF Banana Puree is (if it can withstand a steep or of it fades) and I’ve not tried Nomz Banana so I can’t help you there. The Ripe Banana @3 does fade a bit but it is still present (sits in the background) after steeping.
I totally agree of course and I use the Cosmic Truth calculator and ELR Median Values to compute subs all the time. I can’t live without the calculator anymore so I downloaded it, and I spend a lot of time entering conversion ratios directly into my flavor notes.
Again, I agree - I usually add WF Banana Puree or Nomz Banana to most recipes that call for TPA Banana Cream in order to overcome the fade, and those have worked out well.
Since I have the above mentioned bananas, I’m going to try and sub those in @ 1.6% each. The Grandmaster I have steeping is 3% TPA Banana Cream and 0.5% WF Banana Puree and it’s mellowed, but it’s still there so far - 3 more days! Just ordered TPA Hazelnut Praline and Jamaica Rum directly from TPA because not available at Bull City. Also giving serious thought to MF Peach. Again, Thanks for all your help - if I can return the favor somehow, just message me.
I’d honestly avoid using real Hennessey in a mix. Even if you evaporate the alcohol off, there’s still sugars, oils and other compounds left behind that weren’t really intended to be heated and inhaled.
You’d probably get a cleaner and more consistent result using a cognac or bourbon concentrate instead and then layering vanilla around it. Much easier to fine tune as well.
Hi @jamescarter - I have to admit that after seeing your responses, I elected to dump the test mix I made along with the Hennessey dilution I made. I feel that a bourbon would be closer to the brandy profile than a rum, so I going to sub WF Aged Bourbon Cream or TPA Bourbon into a tester. I should be receiving TPA Jamaican Rum and Hazelnut Praline tomorrow, and I plan to test that too. Again, thanks for both your and @McDuckie 's considered responses.
I think that’s probably the safer route honestly. Purpose made concentrates are just a lot more predictable than trying to work with actual alcohol.
WF Aged Bourbon Cream sounds like it could fit that warm vanilla cognac back note really nicely. The Jamaican Rum and Hazelnut Praline combo also sounds promising for adding depth without making it too boozy.
Definitely interested to hear how your testers turn out.
@McDuckie , I just left you a comment on your Grandmaster Reserve. I had to make a couple of subs, but I received TPA Hazelnut Praline and Jamaican Rum today and wasted no time. This smells incredibile in the bottle and waiting two weeks will be torture - great job man. I’ve got Medicine Flower Peach on the way that I have planned for your Lucena recipe - can’t wait to mix that either.
