Vape Kitchen E-liquid reviews -- SessionDrummer

Due to unending positive reviews I’ve seen on line, mixed with a healthy dose of curiosity, and topped with genuine interest, I decided to pick up more than a few of Vape Kitchen’s finished mixes from @River_Supply_Co during their recent Black Friday Sale. Now realizing that this isn’t DIY’ing as they are finished e-liquid, your interest may vary. What intrigued me was the “nothing like you’ve tasted before” kind of statements that seemed to be very common when talking about Vape Kitchen. I’d never heard of them, but what the hell is Black Friday for anyway, right ??

I really wasn’t sure about taking up what free time I had left away from my mixing, SF testing, etc., but decided to try out a FIRST one, Thai Mango Reserve, and after only a few mere vapes, I knew I was going to have to go ALL IN on this one.

Maybe you’re looking to just toss a new juice in and vape on it, maybe looking for inspriation, maybe you’re just looking to add a few bottles of some “other” juice into your mix. Whatever the reason, I’ll try to take care of you here. It’s not going to be a super speedy review of all of them, but I’ll chip away at it, as time allows.

For ANOTHER first, this will be the FIRST critical juice review not done on my beloved Steam Crave RDTA v.1. Will be using a https://vapesourcing.com/wismec-luxotic-nc-dual-20700-kit-250w-with-guillotine-v2-rda.html ( thanks out to @Cutlass92 and @Molly_Mcghee for turning me onto it) with (2) 20700’s in parallel mode, running some tripple core claptons. Long story, but a friend is borrowing (hehe) the SC to see if vaping is for him, so I set him up with MY favorite flavor chucker. The Wismec is NO slouch when it comes to flavor.

Alrighty, I really hadn’t intended to review these, but the first was just THAT good, and now, I’m compelled. I’d never heard of VC before, but after seeing a lot of good reviews, and the sale at RSC (River Supply Co.), picked them all up at 70v/30p 3mg. You can check out their entire line here …

Thai Mango Reserve (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-9-19) – OK, here’s what they say about this one …

Thai Mango Reserve is a creamier, more complex version of our popular Thai Mango Sticky Rice. This is not your usual reserve. It is an entirely new formulation, enhancing the best parts of the original. Triple vanilla custard, fresh mangoes and warm coconut milk served on a bed of Thai sticky rice.

Wow, because I’m actually getting ALL of those elements in this one. The custards are low enough that they are NOT the main focus, and the Mango and Coconut carry the main share of the weight here. What is interesting, is there IS another element that persists through the entire vape, and it sure seems like a rice element to me. Wow, this is actually a very interesting mix of flavors that pair well, but yet are identifiable singularly at the same time. Is that possible ?? Guess so. It is not a simple “fruit” flavor, and the creamy custards are in there, but serve the butter up the back notes, which really works well, leaving the Mango and Coconut to carry the main weight, and the rice (what an interesting idea) to subtly come along for the ride. As far as a first showing goes, I’m actually impressed so far. Very even, nicely sweet, but not overly so, I’m having a hard time finding issues with this one. Not sure on the sweetener, but I get a slight (very slight) twinge of maybe a Steiva afternote, but not enough to hurt the experience. Thinking of 9/10 for this one guys/gals.


Bad Mother Custard (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-17-19) – From Vape Kitchen …

Bad Mother Custard is a culinary wizardry. First, we infuse VG with Madagascar vanilla in-house. Then, we add it to a rich custard base made of three vanillas, two complex caramels, four creams/milk compounds and a touch of spice. It’s one of our bestsellers and a bad mother…

Wow, not only does that ^^^^ sound like a lotta work, I’ve received a TON of people asking if I’ve tried this one yet !!! OK, ok, I wanted to save one of what appeared to be the better ones for last, just to get me through the cycle LOL. OK, right out of the gate, I don’t think this is a custard like many of you will think/hope/wish for. NOW, that doesn’t mean bad at all, so read on. Ok, outta the gate, this was really good, BUT, it was far different from what I expected. At first, and I mean REALLY at first, I thought maybe I was catching a whiff of maybe hints of a VERY light Banana in there ?? Maybe yes, maybe no. The reason why I feel it’s not the custard type we EXPECT is because it had NONE of the really heavy/heavier notes we’ve come to expect in Custards. Eggy-ness, probably diks, etc, with a thick finish, were NOT present in this one. The description from VC sounds like a LOTTA work it you ask me. Beyond the tickling sense that I was getting some kind of an almost undetectable banana note, this one is really a VERY good, diverse, and full Vanilla Pudding (like) vape. Not pudding, but pudding-like. The Madagascar cannot be denied in this one, BUT, it is far MORE complex as there are other vanilla’s in there floating around it appears. I personally didn’t pick up on any Caramels, but just because you can’t identify them, doesn’t mean they’re not pulling in there. The milks/creams are evident more so by effect, than taste, as they work to round/soften it out. The spice that’s listed by VC I can’t identify, but I’m getting some Bourbon in there for sure, but behind the Madagascar. I can’t think of a direct comparison, but will try. Maybe a much lighter version of DIYFS Holy Vanilla, but much cleaner. I think a name more along the lines of a Bad Ass Vanilla Slapdown would be more accurate, than a custard. We could debate the differences between say an American Custard, vs. a European Custard till the cows come home, but must custards I’ve tried (even the ones I didn’t like) carried more weight than this one (for better or worse), and most were heavier, richer, and many had more eggy-ness.

Now will ALL that blabbering out there, is it good ? Absolutely it is, BUT, to me (it’s probably dik free) it’s a really good Vanilla blend with cremes, slight spice, etc. Let’s call it a Lighter, Cleaner Custard maybe ?

This will be hard to rate, as repeated chain vaping reveals maybe a SMIDGE of some eggy-ness, but you have to work for it. And God knows I hated on CAP VC for the longest time BECAUSE of the eggy that I get/got from it, but I still use it.

Even though this was much cleaner/lighter than I expected, and I still get this little punch note on the top end, just ever so slightly banani-ish, or bubble gum-ish, but just a slight bit, that’s intruiging me. Def. a complex mix to say the least. I don’t think down voting would be applicable, just because it’s a lighter, less eggy than expected mix. Will have to leave this @ 9.25/10. I would highly recommend trying this, is the above description appeals to you, and hear YOUR thoughts on this one. Complex, yet light, clean, etc. Interesting one.


Banana Churro Pudding (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-19-19) – From the Manufacturer …

For Banana Churro Pudding, we fold caramelized bananas and crispy hot churros into a creamy vanilla pudding. It’s okay to go a bit bananas. This is a tasty one.

Most (pretty much all) of the Churros I’ve tried thus far all had kind of a “funky” note to them. Not exactly like the Play Doh in CAP Glazed Donut, but still kinda funky. The GREAT news here, as it was NOT present in this flavor. The banana was outstanding in this mix and hit you first outta the gate, followed up with some (rather unclear, and less present) bakery-ish elements, and bathed in a creme. Now, what was interesting about this was I wasn’t getting much OF the Churro when vaping it, but smelling it out of the bottle, it was there loud and clear. Hmmmm, sniff YES, … vape, … NO. Interesting. My setup ? Coils ?? Not sure why. YOU vape and report back. As far as the mix in total, with the Churro not being as present in the vape as I would have liked, it was still a pretty damned good banana, cream, maybe pudding-ish vape ? They claimed a caramelized banana, and there WAS something different about the banana here, hard to nail down, PERHAPS was the Churro peeking out, but can’t be sure. When I say Banana Cream-ish vape, it is NOT like grabbing a bottle of LA Banana Cream and just vaping it, it IS quite a bit more complex, and interesting than that. The mix was one of the more laid back in the bunch, and sweetness was quite fine, not pushing any limits. I could see vaping this even with the strangely recessed Churro. Due to less Churro than I would have liked, 7/10.


Bean Leaf and Cream (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-19-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Our interpretation of a classic. BLC (Bean, Leaf & Cream) is a blend of Tahitian vanilla bean, tobacco and our exclusive Vape Kitchen cream base. It’s satisfying and smooth.

Wow, wow, WOW on this one. I’m testing this on the heels of VK’s Bad Mother Custard, which I did like, BUT, came across as a lot lighter and cleaner than I had hoped. This one (BLandC) started hitting the GOOD button the moment I started vaping it. Immediately I was struck with a much heavier, fuller, and richer experience than the BMC. Out of the gate, the Vanilla Bean is outstanding, and front and center. NOT being a tobacco flavor vaper I didn’t know whether or not to be scared off by it’s inclusion in this one, but surprisingly, I really didn’t get much tobacco WHILE vaping it !!! Maybe it’s layered in there so delicately, and expertly that it just seemelessly adds to the really rich overall taste of this, but I can only assume that. Repeated vaping didn’t really reveal any detectable tobacco, which worked out fine for me. The finish for me, was just a clean transition from the Vanilla rush on the front end, into a hell of a good creamyness. Wow, let’s vape that one again …Yup, that’s about it. Sweetness if about perfect, not too much, just enough. If you’re looking to only try a few from VK, this should be one of them. Very rich and full vanilla on the front end, transitioning into a super good creamy finish. I can’t add any more to this one. Let’s just leave it @ 10/10 so I can vape it some more !!!


Blueberry Doughnut (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-11-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Not just a glazed blueberry doughnut, but the Blueberry Doughnut. This one goes great with your morning cup of coffee.

Having had some pretty bad and yeasty (overly so) doughnuts in the past, am always excited and scared to try new ones. Luckily for me no Play Doh in this one !!! The medium weight Blueberry was tempered by a bakery-ish element, but to me it doesn’t present as a doughnut. Not bad, and somewhat recessed in the mix, but still there. The blueberry while not having a lot of high end punch to it, stayed full throughout the vape. Not overly complex, and with the doughnut somewhat lackluster, didn’t think continued vaping would reveal much different, which it didn’t. Overall the mix was nicely sweet, but low on the sweet scale, and an overall full vape. With the lack of any punch to the BB and the doughnut there, but not overly there, will leave this one @ 6.5/10.


Buko Pandan (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-30-19) – From Vape Kitchen …

Buko Pandan is a Filipino dessert salad typically served during the holidays. We mix sweet coconut milk, condensed milk and pandan jelly in this interpretation.

OK, right out of the gate, this one, was a creamy brick, RIGHT to the FACE !!! OMG on the thick levels of creaminess in this one. Immediately reminded me of the Hangsen creams, i.e. Italian, Ice Cream, Cream, etc. After the mega, super rich creaminess, the coconut falls into second place with some condensed milk, and ends with a nice somewhat sweet finish. Now from the description, I was looking for the jelly in this one, as it would have been a nice punch through all of the creamy coconut, but I couldn’t find it. Doesn’t mean this is a fail, but it’s a super rich, creamy coconut, and a lil’ bit of jelly would have helped to clear the palate up just a smidge. What’s interesting is finger testing, I think I AM getting some jelly, but just can’t find it, vaping it. Let’s re-fill, and re-check this one. Hmmmm, maybe just a smidge it anything, as an overall high note, but it’s fighting for it’s life with the decadent, heavy creams, and coconut. As a mix, it’s quite delishious, heavy, creamy, and full, just missing that little jelly punch. Solid @ 8/10.


Jubilee (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-31-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Jubilee is a blend of peach, pineapple, lychee, raspberry and blackberry. So fresh and fruity, it’s a fruit flavor worth celebrating.

Alright let’s see what we’ve got here. Outta the gate, this was a nicely sweet, fruit medley. As far as the pairings go, it was fairly well blended such that none really stood out. Maybe the Lychee and Pineapple a bit to the front, but only slightly. It didn’t present as overly dark, as could have been the case with the Rasp. and Black berries. Mix was fairly full and the sweetness wasn’t over the top like many commercial fruit juices. Plenty of pop and sizzle with nothing off putting or fatiguing. Could make for a great summertime vape. As it stands as a whole, a fairly front facing fruit medley, and nicely evened out so no one flavor steals the show. Not the most complex, but I don’t think it needs to be. Nicely sitting on the higher end @ 8/10.


Mangeaux (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-29-19) – From Vape Kitchen …

Truly the mango of all mango flavors, Mangeaux is a blend of perfectly ripe, tart mango juice and mango slushy. It is also the fruity base of our popular Thai Mango Sticky Rice.

I can’t say that I am a huge Mango fan, so I was interested to see how this played out. The FIRST two thoughts that popped into my head (for better or worse) were, “Mango Gut Punch”, and “Sprite”. There you go, review over. LOL, kidding. Alright, this one was VERY good, and that’s coming from a not mango fanboy. For a seemingly “simple” fruit, this one presented as a fairly complex mix ?? What ?? It seemed to cover about ALL of the aspects of a great Mango. Lower rind notes, great full mid body, and sprinkled with some super bright punchy notes on the top (that’s what made me think of Sprite). Now I don’t mean it tastes like Sprite (soda), but that was a fairly close bright, punchy high end I was getting. What is complex ? Great question, and to me, it’s something that has discernible layers, which can present differently sometimes, throughout the vape. This one’s got that. I have no clue how many they layered in here, but it presents as a really interesting mango fruit mix. The creams are not present in this one (great), but could be very low for blending. Sweetness is again, about middle of the road, and the rich, full Mango is the one and only star. Repeat vaping revealed nothing else, and it was not fatiguing at all. I’m still trying to figure out what sweetener they are using, and I still think it’s a Stevia based mix, and it’s slightly present at the end of the exhale, but it’s not offputting at all. After making it almost 2/3’rds of the way through my Vape Kitchen batch, I think it’s safe to say this is one of the better ones, and SHOULD be on anyone’s “You should def. try this one” list. “Mother of all Mangos” ?? Perhaps so. 9.75/10.


Nanas French Toast (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-29-19) – From Vape Kitchen …

Nana’s French Toast is brioche dipped in a cinnamon-spiced egg batter, rolled in crunchy corn flakes and grilled to perfection. Topped with powdered sugar and syrup, of course, because Nana wouldn’t have it any other way.

Starting this off, I’ll share that my NUMBER ONE favorite French Toast is RFSC FT. It had every element that you would expect from a FT. How does VK do there’s ?? Differently, and quite a bit. When I first topped off the RDA and started testing, I stepped back thinking, “Wait, French Toast” ? I had been used to the RFSC’s breaded, buttery, syrupy goodness, but this was quite a bit different. Kept vaping it, trying to decide what was going on, even finger tested (I don’t finger test), to try to better figure out how to even explain it, and it is/was/is difficult. As far as the name, “Nana” is in there, but supposedly referencing Nana the chef, not the flavor, right ? Well, I kept getting nana the flavor in this one. Lightly so, and on the top note of things, but kept getting it, and it didn’t seem to out of place. Overall (compared to my fav and others) this was a much lighter French Toast. None of the heavy bread, egg, butter, and in your face syrup that you typically get. Now, is that good or bad ?? Unsure. It was a very unique, lighter approach to a french toast, that had a light banana almost top end. The bakery was lower in the mix, and the corn (flakes ?) was evident throughout the vape. Cinnamon spice was in there, but fairly low, and it finished with a light banana-ish finish. Pretty interesting take on FT. If you are looking for a more traditional heavy on the eggy/bready/syrupy FT this will not work for you, BUT, if you’re interested in trying a different, lighter approach on a FT, this WILL work for you. Mix was full, and on the lighter side, but did kind of pull you back in for more, so I think that’s a success. Hard to rate, conventional vs. different take on FT. I think it works, just in a newer and interesting way, so 8.5/10 will work here.


Opus One (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-31-19) – LAST ONE, can we go out with a bang ? From Vape Kitchen…

To craft Opus One, we infuse VG with vanilla and earl grey for 14 days then mix it with a proprietary blend of 25 flavors. The result is an ultra creamy all day vape that contains no dairy.

Whew, what the heck IS this one ?? !!! OK, def. getting the Earl Grey in there, but the OTHER 24 flavors ?? Mmmmm, not sure here. Getting kind of a mish mosh of a creamy, bitter, over burnt brulee maybe ?? Maybe they should have held back about 20 flavors or so. Once you get past the earl grey, there are some caramel notes, maybe some butterscotch, and maybe coffee buried in there somewhere ?? It’s rather muddied and hard to clearly taste. The bitterness picks up for me about half way through the vape and finishes that way, so not sure if this could be an ADV for me. Repeated vaping revealed exactly the previous comments, and my final take is an Earl Grey, great creamy elements, but saddled with an overly burnt and/or bitter brulee. Sweetness and fullness were both OK, but what it was full of, might not be working. Sadly going to leave this LAST one in the bunch rather low @ 3.5/10.


Perfect Pear (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-30-19) – From the Manufacturer …

We believe if you’re going to make a straightforward fruit flavor, it should be perfect. The Perfect Pear is an award-winning all day vape and one of our bestsellers. It’s sweet, juicy and fresh.

I seee youuuu !!! Oh yes I do Flavor West Double Minty Gum. Wow, that was NOT a good idea to use in a Pear juice. If it’s not FW, it’s another, but I know this flavor well, as I’ve been trying to work up something using it. This Pear has it in there at a way too high level, and I immediately recognized the drier finish of it. OK, hat’s off to VK for trying something really strange, hehe, but it doesn’t work. Not at all. To me this was 70 % Double Minty Gum, and 30% Pear. Finger testing, re-vaping, changing the cotton did not change this. Despite having vaped this a bit ago, I still have the dry (telltale) finish of the DMG going on. Well folks, every one can’t be a winner. The pear(s) in this are completely overshadowed by a very present/forward doublemint gum that sadly drives the entire mix off the cliff, IF, you were looking for a juicy pear. There are no sugary crystal notes that an actual pear has, none of the sweet juicy pear-ness. I’ll give a point for trying something unexpected, but that’s about it. 3/10.


Pineapple Whip (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-11-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Pineapple Whip is a frosted dessert made with pineapple bits and soft-serve sherbet. It is a sweet and tangy vape that feels like summertime at everybody’s favorite theme park.

For comparison my current go to Pineapple is hands down INW Pineapple with RFSC a close second. With this one, as expected the Pineapple is front and center with no mistaking, it’s the star of the show. The Pineapple was delicious, bright, punchy, and juicy. Now the MF claimed some soft-serve sherbert, and dammit that IS what I’m kind of getting on there as a mid note that carries through and finishes the vape. Def. a thicker, creamy element. To me it was like a Pineapple Cream almost, much like an Orange Cream, but only Pineapple. It is hard to fully explain, but it did appear to be more than just a simple Pineapple and Cream, so soft-serve, might not be a bad way to explain it. This one kicked higher on the sweeteness scale, but, did not come close to what I experienced with commercial juice, so they are showing restraint, which I liked. Overall the juice was very nice, even, and punchy pineapple-y but tempered all the way through. A poor comparison might be INW Pineapple, with LB VBIC, just for an idea. In closing despite the Pineapple having some high end note punch, it wasn’t fatiguing, or overly sharp, but had just the right punch to it. I could see filling a big tank with this and running out for the day. 2nd one from these guys, and it’s good @ 9.5/10.


Red Dragon (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-15-19) – From the manufacturer…

Red Dragon is a creamy candy flavor made with dragonfruit and strawberry.

To start off with, this was one of the sweeter juices I’ve tried thus far, and it still doesn’t quite reach the commercial juice level. The Dragonfruit carries the main weight on this with a few SB’s in there to balance it out. Although I couldn’t clearly detect any creams, I think the “Vanilla Soft Serve” may be in here, and it works well to both temper some of the spikes, and further round out the bottom end. Now the candy part will be up to interpretation, as it does convey that pretty well, with a nice jammie high end. Overall despite being one of VC’s sweeter juices (that I’ve tried so far), it worked really well, and I actually do prefer the Dragonfruit being forward of the SB’s. Continued vaping reveled nothing extra, and as a whole the Red Dragon works really well, with all the elements pulling together, with no real shortcomings, and the bright jammie high end is a nice plus. Another strong one from these guys, 9.25/10.


Royal Jasmine Tea (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-29-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Our Royal Tea Jasmine is a two-step super fusion. First, we triple infuse green tea with jasmine blossom. Then we infuse this aromatic tea blend in VG for three months. The result is a creamy milk tea variant unlike any other.

Wow (again), now that sounds like a LOTTA work ^^^^. Smelling this in the bottle revealed a creamy Jasmine flavor, and vaping kept that trend going. I felt like I was having to work to pull more of the green tea from this than was present, so it’s safe to say the green tea was fairly recessed in this mix. To me, the creamy base took center stage, with the Jasmine following behind that, with the green tea pulling in the rear. I love creamy bases / mixes, so this overall was very nice. Middle of the road sweetness, and a somewhat complex mix throughout the vape. Green tea is a weaker tea IMO, and even with that, I would have preferred more of it in this mix. Repeated vaping didn’t pull the tea forward at all, but it could be pulling it’s weight just more subdued, i.e. it’s absence would def. be noticed. As it stands, this is a nice, light to mid creamy jasmine vape with mid complexity, with a green tea that’s IN there, just subdued. Feels pretty good right at 8/10.


Ube Macapuno (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-23-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Ube Macapuno is an Ube ice cream flavor made with taro, cane sugar, fresh coconut, cinnamon and sweet corn. This is a traditional Filipino dessert with a profile as unique as it is delicious.

Having never Ube’d before, wasn’t sure what to expect. The description sounded pretty damned good, what’s not to like ? Throughout my testing of VK’s line, I’ve grown accustomed to their sweetener, which I believe it Stevia, probably Reb A. Some mixes it’s more prevalent, others not so much. In this mix it was more than less. Now this isn’t terrible, just be advised. The overall vape was a very full, semi-rich experience that did seem to be Ice Cream based, with an emphasis on the Coconut, but it was more. I didn’t really pick up on the Corn, and that might be because I was spoiled by OOO’s Corn Bread (which is insanely good, and def. Corn). It could be buried in there, but it’s undetectable. The Cinnamon as well wasn’t really detectable, so if it’s in there, it’s very low in the mix. Overall it was a pretty good vape, and the finish def. revealed their sweetener which wasn’t overly high, just more revealed in this mix. I actually would have liked a bit more corn, and some cinnamon to full this one out per the description. Nice one to try, not sure on the ADV of it, so leaving it @ 6/10.


Watermelon (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-12-19) – From the Manufacturer …

Watermelon flavor that tastes the way it should. Juicy, sweet and delicious.

I love me some Watermelon, and my current two faves (for reference) are MF Watermelon for a super natural, and LA Watermelon for a less natural more candied WM. First things first, this was very natural tasting flavor with nothing off-putting or artificial, which is great. The flavor was more laid back than I would have hoped, as I prefer a more forward WM. Now despite loving the natural flavor, what type I was getting was less of the red, and more of the white, and rind. Repeated vaping proved more of the same. The sweeteness was light as well, and overall was a light, refreshing WM, but perhaps too light. If you are looking for a lighter summertime WM vape, this might work for you. For my tastes, going to leave it @ 6.5/10.


White Raspberry (Vape Kitchen) 70/30 3mg (12-31-19) – 2nd to the last folks, here’s what they had to say …

An all day vape that’s so balanced, burnout it nearly impossible. White Raspberry blends tart raspberry, sweet ripened peaches and a touch of white grape. It has a cool, non-menthol finish.

Alright, out of the gate, I could tell this was NOT in my wheelhouse, as the first impressions were Wintergreen Gum. Now, vaping it deeper (that’s what SHE said), revealed a whole lot MORE of the same, but with some added Raspberry nuances. Smelling it in the bottle revealed some white grape, that wasn’t overly present when vaping it. If the peach was in there, it was obscured by everything else going on here. Lacked focus, and was a rather blurred mix overall to my tastes. I’m not a fan of cooling, but knew that going into this one per their description. Re-dripping and vaping more did seem to reveal some more of the white grape. Further vaping confirmed I’m NOT a fan of cooling LOL. Alright, just because it’s not in your wheelhouse, you must vape on. Overall, it just seemed like a blurry raspberry/wintergreen gum w./ some white grape. It was indeed a full-ish vape, but I think, just not MY vape. There were some creams in there maybe, to fill it out a bit, but blurry was the word that kept coming to mind, so I feel good leaving this @ 4.5/10.

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