Interesting
Congratulations stupid Americans. Welcome back measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, and polio.
Kirk, you and I have been getting along so well, so I don’t understand why you’d call me stupid for simply posting something of interest to me. I didn’t quantify that I thought anyone who might disagree with the post, was stupid. There’s plenty of room here, in this forum, to have differences of opinion, but your response was kind of shitty. Moderators are supposed to help keep the peace, or so I thought.
@CaptainKirk, I think @whthek is right, he shouldn’t be slammed for agreeing with OR disagreeing with what his state is doing. I personally didn’t like the “stupid Americans” statement, WHILE agreeing we DO house a LOT of stupid people over here, God knows we do.
This reminds me of during COVID, Florida did NOT mask up, and lock down like MANY of the other states, yet fared very well during COVID, despite a lot of “talking heads” claiming DeSantis was going to kill the children.
Without delving into the whole vax, no vax thing, it really leaves me curious as to a glaring hypocracy on some regarding personal choice. I remember, no to long ago there was QUITE a stir around, “My Body, My Choice”. You guys remember that ?? I do, and it was a big deal. Enter COVID, and that whole mantra DISAPPEARED. What the F. Selective ??
At this point, now that more, and more factual information is coming out about the last “Mostly Effective” vax, I don’t know how anyone could look you in the eye, and still compel you to take it, or hell, any other vax for that matter. Over here in the US, one of the BIGGEST losses after the COVID debacle that is really not being talked about the the LOSS in trust in our healthcare system, and, vaccines.
Your body, your choice works for me. Different states can do as they please.
In regards to these, there is a growing mountain of evidence, that recent increases in many once thought eradicated diseases are/were directly linked to the open southern border, where an uncontrolled amount of (yes), unvaccinated people were allowed to flood into the country unchecked.
Top 3 when it comes to causes of death
1 Cardiovascular disease
2 Cancer
3 Medical procedures and medication 
Good Afternoon,
I don’t plan on turning this into a long running argument, because I know that no amount of logic can possibly convince others who are committed to their views. So, I’ve tried to reflect and carefully consider my response, for the sake of others who may view the topic. I’m going to make a few points and won’t respond further.
- Let me start with my own basic fundamental premise: I don’t care what cherry picked data vapers, or anyone else, post. Vapers are not medical professionals or scientists so I discount their personal biased views and what they promote. I also discount the views of vaccine skeptics who have found their way into government office and refused to park their personal opinions at the door when they start work in the mornings. So anything that RFK Jr. or Joseph Lapado say or do cannot be trusted – neither have credibility and it’s called conflict of interest. And everyone knows that Kennedy’s entire family have disowned him and view him as a lunatic. What I value and trust are the majority consensus of the medical and scientific community, and my primary care doctor to guide me. I don’t trust a limited number of fringe lunatics.
- The reason for this is that right wing politicians are intentionally sowing distrust as a political tactic, and everyone should know this by now. It’s why I cannot and never will again trust politicians from the party of liars. We’d all be better served to stop listening to that dialogue.
- I never named @whthek in my reply, so if that stung… The other half is no longer going to remain silent, and VC is not a right wing only club. As a moderator I have one small area of responsibility and that is to help monitor our disposables policy. So I feel free to express my opinions too, especially in an opinion topic.
- I don’t view that philosophy as universal. In the case of abortion, I agree. In the case of communicable disease, this is like saying “I can set off a biological weapon in my front yard and it doesn’t affect my neighbors.”
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Sow that xenophobia. I think you just made the case that robust vaccine programs are still useful and needed. If you’re suggesting border control is the answer, that is completely unrealistic as long as international travel exists.
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Something quickly forgotten about the Covid pandemic was the number of people who refused to get vaccinated, then got sick, and were dying in the hospitals changing their tune, and begging for the vaccine, unfortunately too late. I lost my father to the pandemic, so again, I have little tolerance for stupidity. If anyone took the vaccine, and are now hypocritically criticizing it, then they have no credibility whatsoever. Don’t forget - the vaccine is not intended to eradicate the disease - it’s intended to help keep you from dying from the disease. The majority consensus of the medical and scientific community and my primary care doctor support all the vaccines mentioned here, and that’s all I need to know. The cherry picking conspiracy theorists who feed paranoia and xenophobia – especially those in our leadership and media - can jump off a pier.
We are all lucky that it’s likely we never knew anyone who suffered from polio. We lived in an era where that disease was largely eradicated and you can thank vaccines for that - how quickly we forget. As a matter of fact, I recall recently reading of a polio victim who spent his entire adult life in an iron lung, and finally succumbed. Can you possibly imagine? You don’t know and have lost sight of how lucky you have it, and its government services that help make that possible. Yes – those very services that are being financially gutted by the administration. How stupid.
If you made it to the end of this, Thanks for listening. Make good decisions - good luck.
@CaptainKirk I was very saddened to see this post, and, well, the one before it as well, and not for the reasons you will assume. Truly saddened.
Well then, I assume you ARE a Virologist, Immunologist, or Epidemiologist specializing in mRNA, such that we should NOT discount everything you just posted ?? You just made the case against yourself, and your entire post.
You then broke the cardinal rule, but more on that later, as you now injected politics into the discussion, and more. You have now assumed, prejudged, and/or assigned political leanings, to VC members ?
So your ONLY job here as a Moderator at the VC, is to enforce the disposable policy ?? It’s not to be fair, unbiased, and neutral to handle disputes, and issues as they arise impartially ?? I have always been under the impression that you loose some rights as a Mod, i.e. you are NOT supposed to get involved in topics, and expressing your viewpionts, including leanings, political beliefs are NOT to occur, because in doing so, it makes you even LESS impartial, neutral, etc. You are a Mod, NOT a regular member.
I am very sorry for your loss, truly. With that said however, back to my original statement here, that does not make you an expert, or qualified in any way regarding vaccines, their efficacy, or dangers.
It appears that we have a VERY different “take” on the covid vaccine, which is fine, but very different. I didn’t see you mention anything in regards to vaccine injury in your dialogue. Curious. Perhaps that too, is a “Right Wing” conspiracy ??
Because we have determined that you are not an expert, nor trained in virology, epidemiology, or mRNA tech and should be discounted
I will discuss, what you have failed to mention, or address. My wife was compelled to get vaccinated by her employer, and against her wishes. After her FIRST SHOT, within hours we were rushed to the emergency room. Full battery of tests, including numerous d-dimer tests. Obviously with NO history of her symptoms, or family history, MANY questions were raised with the ER techs, doctors, and specialists. NO ONE would answer. Many were afraid to even have any kind of discussion beyond the vague. This was back in the earlier days of COVID where you, I assume, were eagerly getting your doses. After repeated tests, “inconclusive”. Well that’s odd, I wonder what could be going on ??
We left, only to have her symptoms return, and worsen, returning to yet ANOTHER ER for more tests, referrals, specialists, etc. We talked to her GP with specific questions, and she was visibly nervous, and either could not, or would not answer. “Mostly safe and effective” ehhh ??
The problem grew so widespread that the actual batch numbers of the vaccine, and injuries sustained were starting to be tracked and documented. But again, nothing to see here, and probably just more propaganda, right ?
You see, here’s the thing. I, nor anyone else on this forum has no clue if you’ve actually researched anything yourself. Sure, sure, you have laid out some very well worn talking points that have been used extensively, which is fine, but I can tell you this, when your wife (or other half) ends up in multiple emergency rooms, with months, and months of tests, with numerous specialists, you start to research a LOT, and we did. From your posts, I do not get the feeling that you did, which again, is fine, but telling.
I’m sure you have utterly NO concern over the fact that the FDA wanted to conceal Pfizer’s vaccine trials data for 75 years ?? I mean, it’s probably just more propaganda, right ??
I think you are conflating different things here, and this is a common mistake. You can have issue with the COVID vaccine. Period. This does not mean that because of that one would be “anti vax”. Traditional vaccines made from dead, or mostly inert live virus is completely different than mRNA vaccines, so those two major points should not be conflated into one, despite it being done ad nauseam.
I have a lot of respect for you @CaptainKirk, but I can see clearly that our experiences, and amount of research here are VERY different, and this is fine, but again, by your own words,
Taking a stance, injecting politics, besmirching forum members, or attacking them for any viewpoints is NOT the job of a Moderator, and sadly, will only lead to MORE loss of active members on this, or any other forum. That surely should not be a desired goal, as we need MORE active members, not less. I appreciate your opinions, but we will have to agree, to disagree.
When you, your partner, or someone you actually know is vaccine injured, things are seen in a completely different light. The talking bobble heads on TV, or the “media experts” blatherings can no longer be heard, or trusted, especially when you actually research who the lion’s share of their advertising dollars come from. It’s not that hard to do, it just takes the effort.
This topic is fair game for “General” and “The Pub.” No doubt it will trigger significant disagreement, but let’s just make sure we treat everyone with due respect and reflect on what we agree with as a global vape community (that vape is a positive and less harmful alternative to tobacco cigarettes). @CaptainKirk is free to use his mod privileges appropriately to delete spam and bots, and everyone should remember that being a Mod doesn’t make your opinion correct or more authoritative, just means that you are helping keep the site tidy and hospitable.
Without the help of mods deleting spam and bots, nobody would have a chance to be heard here. Mods are never asked to delete things they simply disagree with, but they are free to post as members of the community; and everyone (whether mod or non) should just keep in mind that what they think and post is going to be allowed without fear of a mod censoring them. Everyone here, including moderators can help set an example of civility.
Roger that @cloudycaptain.
Roger that.
Understood.
Agreed @cloudycaptain. Thank you, for taking the time to chime in on this one.