Reminds me of the housing boom too before the bubble burst in 2008. Would go to parties and it was like a high end auto boutique, felt like a peasant in my old Toyota Tundra. I remember my sister who worked in banking at the time say “it is not how much they make but how much they save” in regards to these loan people who were taking in huge money at the time. Getting rich quick usual means going poor quicker, easy to do when you have no foresight.
6 Likes
Guaranteed.
They’ve been scared for a few years now I think. But it escalated to shitting bricks in the past year I think.
I know they couldn’t be much happier now though. As the ball’s rolling towards getting the money back in their pockets, and not the hands of these “damned upstarts” (no involvement with BT/BP, who they could exert direct pressure on) who’ve come along and taken a bigger and bigger piece of what they’ve always regarded as “their” pie…
Big Tobacco has definitely been afraid before.
A couple of times.
The first (I can think of) was when they were forced to stop advertising on TV.
The second (and I’m sure it was a major scare) was just before the MSA was reached. I remember there being talk back then about there being a complete ban on cigarettes etc.
Unfortunately, the politicians and big business decided that the money was more important back then. Big Tobacco was able to guarantee that they would always be able to sell their product though, and thanks to the payment arrangement (that was ‘sold’ to the Govt and States), everyone went long happily with it.
For big tobacco, losing a small piece of the pie (sharing with the Govt and States) meant holding onto the reins, and continuing on in a cornered market. With even more impunity and lessened recourse (thanks to lawsuits being limited in ways they weren’t before).
I’m DAMNED sure not going to expect any different from either of those two now… Especially with trumped up politicians.
But I firmly believe that the vaping ‘war’ is NOT over. It has been proven to millions of people FIRST HAND already to be effective in getting off cigarettes, with noted improvements in health to those who have quit smoking.
There’s but one message I have for big tobacco:
“Fuck you and your greed at the expense of our loss of life and loved ones.” NO MORE.
Our solution works, and we WILL find a way to continue without you and your product.
6 Likes
They are shitting themselves since they cannot pay back the debt they owe for the bonds that were sold.
These are the states with the highest tobacco debt! Could it be coincidental that these states are the same ones implementing vape bans?
full details
6 Likes
/politicians
Oh just ignore that. We’ve got that figured out. This is 100% about making sure that teens don’t vape. Especially flavors.
/politician
3 Likes
So fucking frustrating cause our muppet of a health minister is sprouting the same shit and we dont even have an msa.
4 Likes
ff to 8.25
He will not even speak to anyone from the vape industry about it and the fucker is proud of it
1 Like
The thing that pissed me off is he quotes the Royal College of Psychiatrists with grass but says the Royal Collage of Physicians study on vaping is wrong - cherry picking at it’s finest
4 Likes
Yeah it’s mind boggling what they try and get away with.
I have long since given up on trying to figure out sociopaths (most politicians). Too many crazy hairpin twists, turns, hard stops, about faces, etc. /smh
4 Likes
This throws that wide open though. People have been told for a long time that they had no grounds to sue because they knew smoking was bad and they chose to smoke anyway.
Now there are millions of people who’s health has improved and have medical records to proof that.
If they get forced back to smoking and get ill again, they could band together and sue the government and BT.
4 Likes
Goes back to the indifferent sheeple again. The MSA was so long ago, massive numbers of people have never even heard of it. I was young in 1988, a junior in high school. I didn’t pay attention to any of it, except the news about how smoking advertising was being removed from TV. I did not know the government and BT did a wink-wink-nod-nod-bob’s-your-uncle, soul-selling deal that worked out perfectly for everyone- except the general public, of course.
The double standards are so deep and so long standing it’s sadly hilarious. BP, BT, and Big Gov are never going to change. It is public perception that needs to change. And will it? I dunno.
3 Likes
I wonder about that sometimes, in this day and age people are flooded with information (read bullshit) 24/7. I don’t think they can retain all of that, especially the snippets of truth sprinkled in the bullshit.
“We’ve always been at war with Eurasia”
There was a Dutch politician murdered in 2002, the guy was wildly popular and would have won the election 9 days later and become the next Prime Minister.
The whole country was on its hind legs. “This doesn’t happen in our country!”
But it did and when the local news outlet in Amsterdam took to the street 3 years later to ask people if they knew who had been murdered 3 years before, no-one knew 
The more news people watch or read, the more confused they get. Especially with the 24 hour news they started when 9/11 happened and just continued when everything calmed down.
Remember the missing plane? No news, but they did have to fill 24 hours with it, it was hilarious. The stuff they made up just to fill the time and people watch it because they are convinced they need all of that to keep up with what’s going on in the world.
Every single change in society has always been brought about by small groups, even individuals.
They get ridiculed, vilified or even imprisoned but eventually those ideas seep into the general population and become the norm.
You only need a very tiny amount of yeast to make a whole bread rise. The other ingredient is time and I think the bread is slowly starting to rise.
The only thing in this world that is constant is change, nothing ever stays the same. The bastards had a long run but the clock is ticking.
4 Likes
That’s sort of what I mean. Especially these days with the over-saturation of ‘news’. Hell, not too long ago, a mass-murder would have been a devastating, singly-important news event for days, if not weeks. There’s so much de-sensitizing anymore that a mass-murder is akin to a major freeway accident these days. Tragic, sad, but short-lived in the new cycle and public conscience. Really little more than fodder for biased legislation and vote garnering. That’s a shame.
So, the public’s attention span is far shorter than it has ever been. Even if these stories and shocking articles listed above make it to the gen-pop’s collective conscience, I doubt it will linger very long.
This week, POTUS impeachment is the hot topic. (It will linger because the media firmly hates the guy so they will continue to shine the light on the stories, but they will soon die). Regardless of the outcome, it will soon be forgotten and the next big thing will be at the top. Then the next. Then the next. There’s very little time to focus on tenth-level issues like vape bans. They’ll pass and all will be forgotten. Bad Vaping has been outlawed, good. Now let’s light up and make a toast. Drinks are on BP.
3 Likes
My point about the impeachment is this… it’s not -in any way whatsoever- being done for the right reasons. It is not being pursued because of any illegal activities. No, it’s being done because the other party hates him and his red letter. It would be the same if a blue guy got it too. It’s all political, and if the other side felt there was little to gain from it, they would not pursue it. They see this not as removing a criminal from public office, but rather as a chance to grab power. Period.
The political climate in this country makes me sick to my stomach. We’re not too far from collapse at this point. When every single thing is politically motivated rather than morally motivated, we’re doomed. And, we’re doomed…
3 Likes
Oh no my dear, they love him, he sells. They have basically put him where he is now. Never has a contestant in the primaries gotten that much attention.
During the election they had an empty studio at CNN for half an hour, because Donnie turned up late.
There was an election going on, the other candidate (lets not invoke bad spirits and name the witch) was holding a speech somewhere else.
They didn’t switch over to show the people what she had to say, they just waited for Donnie because he is hilarious, the stuff the guy says! Everybody tunes in.
I have stopped reading or watching any “news”, it doesn’t matter what side of the political spectrum the reports come from, they are all the same. Trump says… fill in the blanks with something outrageous.
Meanwhile, in the background, the cockroaches are scurrying around undoing any law that protects the public and hinders business. They are the people that usually stay at their post, no matter who is president.
The media keeps the light firmly on Donnie and btw, impeachment means President Pence 
You should get away from that, they’re all in it. Your, (our) media is controlled by the same corporations that cause every single piece of misery on this planet.
They are there to distract, not inform.
Read a book, there are a lot of people that know damn well what’s going on, do proper research and publish.
At some point sensible people have been pushed out by criminal elements that have usurped the world but those people have not disappeared, they are just biding their time.
Don’t worry about the sheep, they just bleat and follow whoever happens to stand up.
What we’re seeing right now is a bit similar to what happened to Hitler when he found out that waging war on two fronts wasn’t such a smart idea after all 
They are juggling a hell of a lot of balls and a lot of the balls are starting to spin out of control.
One of the signs of a dying empire is overreach, they are losing control and are trying to compensate by tightening the laws. That has never worked, on the contrary.
I do sympathise with the American people but I cannot feel sorry when the American Empire comes to an end.
It might have started out as a beautiful vision, but it has become totally corrupt. Combine that with absolute military power and things get ugly pretty fast.
The American way has spread over the world like a virus. Everything in life is about consuming and acquisition, nothing else matters.
We’re drowning in waste to keep some corporations rich.
Jeez, I should write a book! Been droning on a bit here, I must be stoned
5 Likes
Ah, be careful what you wish for. Do we think the next “empire” will actually be better? Sharia Law sure sounds good, especially for you, eh? (Read: it could always be worse)
But I’m not going to let this devolve into personal pokings, no good comes of that. Also, that distracts from the issue, which is the assault on vaping.
The Wolfer’s post about the highest bond debt states leading the ban is disgusting. So obvious, so stomach-churning it makes you want to punch a kitten. But I’ll vape instead.
5 Likes
I hope we get to the stage of not needing shit like empires. Btw, the same corporations rule those ‘others’, they’re transnational, they make big money provoking wars.
5 Likes
Yes! Nail on the head. They have so many internal wars going on it’s impossible to follow. Utter chaos. They aren’t able to keep anything coherent. They’ve told so many lies they can’t keep them straight. Ten different bureaucrats are saying fifteen different things.
4 Likes
We’re sliding off into the grandiose now. The “Empire” will surely approve of the topic shift.
2 Likes
Just look at that graph again, get all pissed, and keep focused on the vaping ban horseshit.
4 Likes
3 Likes